Discussed in #16296
Originally posted by ManuelOsburg May 21, 2026
Hi all,
I've been working through Section 9.2 Smoke of the Validation Guide and wanted to raise a question about the two smoke summary scatter plots — partly to make sure I'm reading them correctly.
Figure 9.49 ("Summary of smoke concentration predictions") reports mass concentration in mg/m³ and combines the NIST/NRC and FM/FPRF Datacenter datasets, with a Model Bias Factor of 2.46. Figure 9.51 ("Summary of smoke obscuration predictions") reports obscuration in %/m for the FAA Cargo Compartments dataset, with a Bias Factor of 1.02. Both figures for reference:
Looking at the experiment data files, all three datasets appear to be based on optical (light-extinction) measurements — the FAA experiment files use LT_* channels in %/m, NIST/NRC has a "Smoke Conc." channel from a laser extinction photometer, and the FM/FPRF data center work also relies on a laser signal. Mass concentration and extinction are linked through $K = K_m · c$, so for a single sample they're essentially interchangeable.
My concern is that the way the two summary plots are set up can leave a reader with the impression that "mass concentration is hard to predict, optical extinction is easy" — when the actual finding (Sec. 9.2.3) is that FDS overpredicts smoke in the closed-door NIST/NRC tests because agglomeration and wall deposition aren't modeled. That's an error in the transported soot inventory, and it would show up under either unit. The two figures differ in two ways at once — the reported quantity and the experiment set — so the unit and the physics end up confounded.
A couple of questions:
- Is there a specific reason the FAA data is summarized as obscuration while NIST/NRC and FM/FPRF are summarized as mass concentration? I'd guess it's because a reliable $K_m$ isn't available for the FAA fuels, whereas it is for heptane/propylene — but I wanted to confirm.
- Would it be worth either harmonizing the quantity across both plots, or adding a sentence near the figures clarifying that the difference in bias reflects the experimental configurations (well-ventilated vs. closed/under-ventilated) rather than the choice of unit?
Happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood the intent here. Thanks for all the work on the Guide.
Best regards,
Manuel
Discussed in #16296
Originally posted by ManuelOsburg May 21, 2026
Hi all,
I've been working through Section 9.2 Smoke of the Validation Guide and wanted to raise a question about the two smoke summary scatter plots — partly to make sure I'm reading them correctly.
Figure 9.49 ("Summary of smoke concentration predictions") reports mass concentration in mg/m³ and combines the NIST/NRC and FM/FPRF Datacenter datasets, with a Model Bias Factor of 2.46. Figure 9.51 ("Summary of smoke obscuration predictions") reports obscuration in %/m for the FAA Cargo Compartments dataset, with a Bias Factor of 1.02. Both figures for reference:
Looking at the experiment data files, all three datasets appear to be based on optical (light-extinction) measurements — the FAA experiment files use LT_* channels in %/m, NIST/NRC has a "Smoke Conc." channel from a laser extinction photometer, and the FM/FPRF data center work also relies on a laser signal. Mass concentration and extinction are linked through$K = K_m · c$ , so for a single sample they're essentially interchangeable.
My concern is that the way the two summary plots are set up can leave a reader with the impression that "mass concentration is hard to predict, optical extinction is easy" — when the actual finding (Sec. 9.2.3) is that FDS overpredicts smoke in the closed-door NIST/NRC tests because agglomeration and wall deposition aren't modeled. That's an error in the transported soot inventory, and it would show up under either unit. The two figures differ in two ways at once — the reported quantity and the experiment set — so the unit and the physics end up confounded.
A couple of questions:
Happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood the intent here. Thanks for all the work on the Guide.
Best regards,
Manuel